Mechanical/Manual cameras

[yoong]

my hands are itchy...so im thinking of getting myself a second hand manual camera, call it a early bday present la. 8)

so just wondering whether there are any recommendations? brand is irrelavant to me, as i just need one lens- a 50mm thats all to go with it.

as i have zero knowledge on these cameras, would like to hear your opinions. btw, anybody here got one to let goo at a nie price?

eugene said something bout fm2 or something..howsat?

[Brian]

eugene said something bout fm2 or something..howsat?

If you're looking to go longterm or create an expanded MF system, then Nikon is definately the way to go. Because they never changed their lens mount, there is a absolutely huge secondhand lens market for you to pick & choose out of. You can use anything but the G-type lenses (which lack an ap ring). The FM2/t/n is a good choice because it shares 90% of its parts with the new FM3a, and Nikon has pledged to continue producing replacement pieces for the FM3a for at least the next 30 years...so getting an FM2 repaired won't be too big of an issue.

My second choice would be a K-mount system...probably Pentax. Again, lots of secondhand lenses available and the body price for a K1000, K2, or ME is less then a FM2.

Third choice for me would be a Yashica. Why? Cause it shares the Contax mount...repeat "Zeiss glass" while you tap your ruby slippers three times. :lol:

[david.tan]

eugene said something bout fm2 or something..howsat?

yeah, Nikon FM2, i believe Mr Khoking is selling many classiscal old cam like FE, F3 and etc, all cam r quite nice, actually me itchy too ! wanted to play some film but afraid my parent scold me , lol

those camera quality is very very nice if u can do well in exposure, last time i try thalis's FE, hmm..... really attact me !!! :D

[Brian]

eugene said something bout fm2 or something..howsat?

yeah, Nikon FM2, i believe Mr Khoking is selling many classiscal old cam like FE, F3 and etc, all cam r quite nice, actually me itchy too ! wanted to play some film but afraid my parent scold me , lol

those camera quality is very very nice if u can do well in exposure, last time i try thalis's FE, hmm..... really attact me !!! :D

*Looks fondly at shoulderbag containing FM3a+35/2 loaded with B&W film*

*sigh*

:wink:

[eugene]

Suggested fm2...but don't shun other bodies...Pentax ME juz rox you know...only problem is that it is slightly hard to get hands on one compare to the fm2. Saw one 2nd hand one on sale the other day with a 50mm. Priced at rm1.3k. That's out of your budget, right?

[Matt]

Have a look at Oly (Olympus). It's pretty advanced for its time, like the OM4ti which has a titanium body, all speed flash sync and the like. It also holds it's value relatively well.

[yoong]

thanks for the replies so far. yeah eugene 1.3 bit out la hehe. hoping for something below 900-1000rm.

olympus ah matt?mm sounds expensiv actually. im not thinking of building a new system with it, just one camera with the 50mm to do some street shooting and casual photography.

price is an issue here, the cheaper the better actually. lol.
any specific models apart from the fm2 i should check out? thanks.

[khoking]

I got a lots to sell off (FE, FE2, F3 + MD4...and can get you a FM2 too if you want). Lens wise also a lot...haha...how about permanently attach a 17mm to it? :lol:

See:
http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/ftz/index.php3 for my various stuff for sale...I posted there at MIR.com. 8)

[khoking]

Nikon has tons of good manual body for you to choose from, so it really depends on your budget. The best would be Nikon FM3A of course at the moment, but price still quite high. If you don't wanna spend more than RM500 for the body alone, then Nikon FE or FM is a nice choice. Else if you have RM700 budget, then you can consider FM2 / FE2. If RM1k budget, then F3 / F3hp. If RM1.5k budget, then FM3A.

FM2T is hard to get...very hard indeed nowadays. I used to own one...brand new in box purchased from shop when I started out photography and got crazy (still crazy actually) about Nikon. Still have my FM2 Millennium Edition set with me... :shock:

[maxby]

Try a mechanical rangefinder...very good for street photos. Cheap models Kiev 4a, Fed.... about RM150.00. More expensive models voiglander and contax III. Most expensive model "leica". All these cameras can be fitted with interchangeable lens.

[Brian]

Try a mechanical rangefinder...very good for street photos. Cheap models Kiev 4a, Fed.... about RM150.00. More expensive models voiglander and contax III. Most expensive model "leica". All these cameras can be fitted with interchangeable lens.

That's a good tip...even though I've got the FM3a, I still bought a Kiev 4a rangefinder. Very inexpensive and works fine. Lens (and body) quality varies unit-2-unit...you either have an excellent one or a piece of crap. I got lucky :wink: . They're heavy as a brick and sound like a dropped brick when the shutter is fired :lol: . The Kiev 3 & 4 models used the Contax III mount, so older Contax lenses should work on it, although the 4a came with a 50/1.8 lens standard. If you want Leica compatibility, try Fed rangefinders.

[david.tan]

Cheap models Kiev 4a, Fed.... about RM150.00

eh ? really ? where to get this "toy" ? sounds cheap and worth since last time saw you using it , lol

[Brian]

Cheap models Kiev 4a, Fed.... about RM150.00

eh ? really ? where to get this "toy" ? sounds cheap and worth since last time saw you using it , lol

I bought mine from http://www.sovietcamera.com.ua and I highly recommend them. They are very helpful, the camera came well-packed, and they CLA everything before it goes out the door.

[david.tan]

I bought mine from http://www.sovietcamera.com.ua and I highly recommend them. They are very helpful, the camera came well-packed, and they CLA everything before it goes out the door.

soviet huh ! hehe... thks brain ! :wink:

[nabghani]

Worth looking into as far as "mainstream" is concerned are any one of those produced in the late 70s peak of mechanical perfection era as far as cameras are concerned:

Nikon FM/FM2 , Canon AE-1 , Minolta X-700 , Olympus OM2n. All these offer manula AND auto exposure modes except for the FM/FM2 ... though FE2 and FA can do auto exposure too.

They'll all do perfectly and if it's not "Nikon" my bet is it's cheaper too relatively speaking.

[yoong]

hmmm my budget is definetely below 1K rm .if possible as cheap la..this toy is for me to play play only...

Ok i have some idiot questions, hope u guys can answer.

wats the difference btw Fe and Fe2, and similarly Fm/Fm2? why the price diff?heard for those who wear glasses, hard to look into the viewfinder or something like that?

thanks for the suggestions maxby, but are those rangefinders heavy compared to the fm2/fe.. etc. i would prefer something light, if not my bag heavy la hehe. but it looks interesting. how do u compose, i heard rangefinders dont use the normal viewfinders i'm used to.


but anyway thanks for the suggestions all..keep them coming. so far the fm/2 looks popular...but KK's Fe or Fe2 sounds good..hehe. KK u have pm.

[bimmer]

KK:
What? No FA?? :)

yoong:
I'll second any Nikon modern manual cameras. As others have mentioned, go for FM / FE series if you are budget conscious.

[maxby]

Cheap models Kiev 4a, Fed.... about RM150.00

eh ? really ? where to get this "toy" ? sounds cheap and worth since last time saw you using it , lol

You need to look around the flea markets or used camera stores. I got mine from the Ipoh flea market.

[david.tan]

You need to look around the flea markets or used camera stores. I got mine from the Ipoh flea market.

Oh ic... i hope i can get it around Msia, i saw da medium format LUBETEL 166 universal from wat Brain intro me the da website, wow, looks nice and cost 50USD, i hope can learn something about medium format, never touch and use befour :D

[maxby]

You need to look around the flea markets or used camera stores. I got mine from the Ipoh flea market.

Oh ic... i hope i can get it around Msia, i saw da medium format LUBETEL 166 universal from wat Brain intro me the da website, wow, looks nice and cost 50USD, i hope can learn something about medium format, never touch and use befour :D

You can still get a new Seagull TLR....quite good optics (I have one....given to my son) for about RM500.00.

Better still if you can afford a rolleicord or rolleiflex...used price about 1k. You will definately love the improvement in quality over the 35mm image. OR the Mamiya C330 with a few lenses, used to be a wedding photographers favourite camera.

[david.tan]

You can still get a new Seagull TLR....quite good optics (I have one....given to my son) for about RM500.00.

Better still if you can afford a rolleicord or rolleiflex...used price about 1k. You will definately love the improvement in quality over the 35mm image. OR the Mamiya C330 with a few lenses, used to be a wedding photographers favourite camera.

Woa... all high class branded like Mamiya or rollei i cant afford for that lo, my budget it to prepare for my nikon equipment, hehe.... just wanna spend about not more that 250 to get a simple medium format to learn 1st lo, if i go for 1k can, but my parent sure ... hehe.... anyway, thks for da great exp in medium Mr Chan !

[Brian]

David,

with MF the cheapest you can go (old or new) is Holga, but I wouldn't suggest it.

Second would be an older (80s) Seagull model or it's varients (Mudan, Pearl River, Eastar, 5 Goats, etc...). Design specs are all exactly the same (all PRC government contracted to make and sell the same Rolliflex cloned design), but the quality varies in two extremes: made for voucher and made for hard currency. The quality of units manufactured for communist voucher sales is only 70% that of the quality in units made for hard currency sales.

Third would be older (mid 60s-mid 80s) rangefinder cameras, also called "press" cameras. Most are 6x7 or 6x9 and have interchangeable backs & lenses. The most popular of these are the Mamiya line (Press 23 & Universal) and Konica line (Koni-Omega M, 100, and 200). From what I've heard the build quality and lens quality of these is second to none and a few friends have told me that these were wedding photographer staple cameras for a long time.

Tied with 3rd is the Russian-made Kiev 88. The new ones are actually pretty decent.

[david.tan]

Thks for da suggestion Brain! :wink:
as wat u sugg, maybe i will look for da seagull, i saw it last time in KLCC, but i wonder that place will cut off my head with super duper high expensive price or not... :?:

hehe... all si fu here, really happy to share and learn from u all ! :D

[choen]

Mainstream affordable no batteries needed 135 format cameras which I've personally handled and liked a lot:

Nikon FM2n (I wanted to say nikkormat as well but those are heavy)
Olympus OM1
Pentax MX, K1000


The MX and OM1 are very similiar in specifications and size. The FM2 and K1000 look giants next to these two.

The FM2n is the youngest of the bunch. Thus it comes with the most advanced specification, among the four.

[choen]

MF= medium format?

I can vouch for the quality of the newer Kiev88 with the pentacon 6 lens mount. They're usually marketed as Kiev88CM.

[bimmer]

....an older (80s) Seagull model or it's varients....
.

i love picking on chool teachers.... :)

[Brian]

....an older (80s) Seagull model or it's varients....
.

i love picking on chool teachers.... :)

variAnts :P

[atwl77]

How about a Canon AE-1?

Well, it's not a "true" mechanical camera in the sense that it still needs battery power to release the shutter, but on the bright side if you start lovin' the camera FD lenses are somewhat easier to find and more versatile, and probably cheap too! :D


:)atwl

[yoong]

Brian, maybe the new PM u have to put grammar check alongside the censor :lol: :lol:

btw, hows the size of FE compared to fm2n? big or small?

[Brian]

Brian, maybe the new PM u have to put grammar check alongside the censor :lol: :lol:

btw, hows the size of FE compared to fm2n? big or small?

The same...both in the "compact SLR" class. The only Nikon manual focus bodies that are smaller are the FG (awesome little thing) and FG20 (piece of crap).

The FG is a great little camera if you can find one, but some older batches suffer from foam issues (easily fixable) and a problem with the IC that controls the shutter timing (not fixable OR replaceable). My first FG had this problem and now only shoots at M90 :(

[maxby]

Yoong,
Can organise a PM mechanical/manual camera outing when you come back. Those with cameras that can be switched to manual mode can attend....including those digital ones. :lol: :lol: :lol:

[khoking]

btw, hows the size of FE compared to fm2n? big or small?

FM, FM2, FE, FE2 all are having the same (or too small different that I can't detect) size. I have owned (and currently still own SOME) all of them :lol:

[yoong]

Yoong,
Can organise a PM mechanical/manual camera outing when you come back. Those with cameras that can be switched to manual mode can attend....including those digital ones. :lol: :lol: :lol:

yes please...any outing...any where...just at least one... :? :?

[yoong]

hmm ok thanks for all the replies guys..i gotta think bout this for while hehe. cheers! :lol: :lol:

[Brian]

hmm ok thanks for all the replies guys..i gotta think bout this for while hehe. cheers! :lol: :lol:

yoong, if you really can't find anything there, I'll sell you one of my Kiev rangefinders (the 4a). Problem is, there's a strait of water between us :P

[Thalis]

I say Yoong... decided on anything yet?

I just "borrowed" a Zorki-4 with a Jupiter-8 50mm f/2 to play around with. I say, twisting the knob to wind the film and cock the shutter has me getting blisters oredi...

[yoong]

decided to get khoking second hands FE but now lack of lens. hehe. any suggestions for lens now? a 50 mm will do actually..

[zaman]

One cheap manual camera that Nikon have that is being forgotten and are still available as brand new ... Nikon FM 10 .. the cost is below 1K for new one. Why is it not popular although it is a Nikon ??? :dunno: :dunno:

[Thalis]

Yoong

FE ya? Nice body... can take pre-AI lens too. Too bad my FE2 can't...


Zaman

I think it's because it's Cosina made... and the viewfinder is terrible. But them diopter eypieces can be used for the Voigtlander rangefinders man... ha ha...

[zaman]

I agree with you .. I have some problem with the viewfinder... add together with my poor eyesight made me difficult to focus .. especially with that little round thing (for focus) inside the viewfinder...

[Thalis]

Zaman

Basically the FM/FE-10 is alright. But it does lack the high flash sync and top speed of the FE2/FM2n. Also, I think you can't change the focussing screens.

It's indeed a cheaper way to buy a new body in order to tap into the Nikon lens system. Are you using the kit lens that came with it? It may say "Nikkor" but so many people taro that lens. I am sure it can make decent pictures...

If I rememeber correctly, you do wear specs, right? That would be a problem with the FM/FE-10. Plus the viewfinder being dark. I changed the screen on my FE2 to the B2 screen... no focussing aids at all... also have the E2 screen in case I am too drunk to hold the camera horizontal.. haha :lol:

[Thalis]

Hey Yoong

Get a Series E 50mm 1.8.... that lens rocks man.... :D

[zaman]

Originally posted by Thalis@Aug 3 2004, 01:19 PM
Zaman

Basically the FM/FE-10 is alright. But it does lack the high flash sync and top speed of the FE2/FM2n. Also, I think you can't change the focussing screens.

It's indeed a cheaper way to buy a new body in order to tap into the Nikon lens system. Are you using the kit lens that came with it? It may say "Nikkor" but so many people taro that lens. I am sure it can make decent pictures...

If I rememeber correctly, you do wear specs, right? That would be a problem with the FM/FE-10. Plus the viewfinder being dark. I changed the screen on my FE2 to the B2 screen... no focussing aids at all... also have the E2 screen in case I am too drunk to hold the camera horizontal.. haha :lol:
Yes I use the kit lens .... and wearing spec B) B) ..

[yoong]

Originally posted by Thalis@Aug 3 2004, 01:20 PM
Hey Yoong

Get a Series E 50mm 1.8.... that lens rocks man.... :D
and how much would that be? for 1st and 2nd hand? heh.

[Thalis]

Yoong... I think the E lens is available 3rd hand or 4th hand if you are lucky... ha ha... :lol:

Seriously, I see them sold together with bodies like the EM or FG-20 now. Not easy just to find a E 50mm being sold by itself. 28, 35 or 100 more likely. However, I was at Desmond's today and he has a 50 1.8 AIS going for uh... around RM200+ I think. I have to check with him to be sure. Looks almost identical to the E and I also think the elements are the same cept that it has the Nikon NIC coating as compared to the E's single coating.

I do know that the E 35 2.5 at Desmond's is only at RM120 for sure.

Are you in the Klang valley?

[Brian]

If you're going for a "one lens street shooting" thing, you may consider the 35mm focal length over 50mm. It gets more in, but isn't so wide as to render unnatural & distorted pics...it's on my FM3a 90% of the time. :)

[yoong]

oh dear..now it's 50mm or 35mm..geez.

not even in msia at the moment Thalis. but will be back on 25th aug.

so anybody else thinks i should get a 35mm rather than 50mm?
wont it be too wide to shoot Brian? gotta go real close then...

[Brian]

Originally posted by yoong@Aug 4 2004, 02:35 AM
gotta go real close then...
Yep. :nudge:

[seagull]

Originally posted by yoong@Aug 3 2004, 01:35 PM
so anybody else thinks i should get a 35mm rather than 50mm?
take both. both lenses can be like wide angle or telephoto. build up the sense of distance to subject, both lenses are simple to use.

my 35mm is 100% on my rangefinder which i use very frequently now. 50mm is 90% with my SLR.

[choen]

Originally posted by Thalis@Aug 3 2004, 12:32 AM
I say Yoong... decided on anything yet?

I just "borrowed" a Zorki-4 with a Jupiter-8 50mm f/2 to play around with. I say, twisting the knob to wind the film and cock the shutter has me getting blisters oredi...
Blisters???

:bunny:

[choen]

Everything in this folder are taken with a single 35mm lens.

http://choen8002.fotopic.net/c108221.html

[Brian]

Originally posted by choen@Aug 4 2004, 08:50 AM
Blisters???

:bunny:
Assuming the Zorki has a winder like my Kiev, then yeah :lol:

It's a metal knob with grip (molded in the knob, so also metal) and too much drag. It's almost like a cheese grater for the thumb :P

[choen]

Originally posted by Brian@Aug 4 2004, 08:59 AM
Assuming the Zorki has a winder like my Kiev, then yeah :lol:

It's a metal knob with grip (molded in the knob, so also metal) and too much drag. It's almost like a cheese grater for the thumb :P
Aye Brian, I have a zorki with the old style winder too.
Now that it's mentioned, aye, my thumb suffered from blisters too when I first used this camera.

[Thalis]

Well, right now I have plastered my finger in order to use that knob of a winder.

Yoong, I suggest you start with the 50 first. Cheaper mah... :rolleyes:

[yoong]

Originally posted by Thalis@Aug 4 2004, 11:37 AM

Yoong, I suggest you start with the 50 first. Cheaper mah... :rolleyes:
Good idea. :lol: :lol:

[PhotoNut]

Brian, did you get your FM3a with the pancake 40mm lens? I always wondered how that lens perform. I thought the slim profile makes it an excellent rig for street photography.

[nabghani]

For street stuff I'd vote for 35mm, wide enough without so much of the distortion common to wides. At 50mm, you may find yourself a tad too close and having to move back a little. :D

[Brian]

Originally posted by PhotoNut@Aug 4 2004, 02:38 PM
Brian, did you get your FM3a with the pancake 40mm lens? I always wondered how that lens perform. I thought the slim profile makes it an excellent rig for street photography.
You mean the 45/2.8 Ai-P? Nah...although I do want one. It's a simple Tessar design...images are a little soft but the saturation, contast, and bokeh are all excellent.

I typically use an old Nikkor 35/2 Ai I picked up off of eBay for 50 bucks :)