Some general questions from an RF newbie

[clipper79]

I will go with the Zeiss Ikon any day in my view. If you are lusting for that, may as well save up for it. Instead of spending on so many cameras and at the end, regretting some of your purchases. Get the one which you are most comfortable with, and that you will not feel insecure to take out and abuse too. That is how you get photos which are most compelling. I remember getting a minty M6 once, but I never used it. I was too afraid of scratching it more than the R3a I bought after it. At the end, I sold the M6 and invested in a medium format set up in the P6.

In short, make a decision and quit thinking about it for way too long. Get the camera and start shooting.

[Rob_Chan]

i dont own many cameras, so personally, i i ever wanted something and really sink my tooth in it, better get the best in the market which suits my budget no point having all sort of camera when you only shoots on weekends, well... almost on every weekends. I would really recommends you to get the Zeiss Ikon because of three factors, well built, M mount and its beauty. you wont find any RF with that big and bright viewfinder and somehow most all film RFs are getting ridiculously expensive nowadays. happy hunting bro.

Thanks for the feedback brah, will keep in mind. I fully agree on the weekend shooting part. I wouldn't wanna spend upwards of 5K for an Ikon kit and use it less than 10 times a month. Maybe this is why I'm more attached to my OM-1n MD SLR. It's so much more practical and easier to shoot with it than my 35SP. In any case, I won't be able to afford an Ikon anytime soon, so I'll just sit back and observe the situation.

[Rob_Chan]

I will go with the Zeiss Ikon any day in my view. If you are lusting for that, may as well save up for it. Instead of spending on so many cameras and at the end, regretting some of your purchases. Get the one which you are most comfortable with, and that you will not feel insecure to take out and abuse too. That is how you get photos which are most compelling. I remember getting a minty M6 once, but I never used it. I was too afraid of scratching it more than the R3a I bought after it. At the end, I sold the M6 and invested in a medium format set up in the P6.

In short, make a decision and quit thinking about it for way too long. Get the camera and start shooting.

Thanks much for your feedback, and I really do wish I could afford it at my present state, ha ha. I'll probably spring for smthng more affordable like the old Hexar AF once my finances are slightly better, or as you said, maybe I'll hold back the purchase and save up like crazy for the Ikon.

And yes, I have heard of several Leica owners (particularly the M4 and M6) who never got to take their cameras out for shooting just because they don't want to dirty it. Kind of paradoxical, since the whole point of getting a Leica is to shoot life even more, ha ha. Maybe that's the appeal of cheaper RFs like the Bessa since you don't feel so much pain if it ever get's dented, and should be relatively cheaper to repair.

[iver aldas]

Hi Rob,

To me, shooting film is about the lens. Get the best lens you can afford and start shooting. Whilst it's nice to own a Leica film body, it's not of paramount importance to me.

I have tried looking for a M4-P (and M4-2) at reasonable price here (and Singapore too) but to no avail, coz none of them are as good as the price you can find over in Hong Kong.

So in the end I bought a brand new Bessa R3M (from USA) and also a Zeiss Ikon ZM. BTW, are you the same fella who commented on David's Facebook photo of my Zeiss Ikon? hehe

So prices of camera in Hong Kong are far more cheaper than those from Malaysia and Singapore? Hmm. Because I think Singapore sells the cheapest film camera's in Asia second to South Korea. I'm not 100% sure of it though, I just base the facts from the prices I find on online forums and as well as friends spending their vacations in Singapore. A friend told me that film cameras in South Korea are very cheap if you compare it to JP, HK, KL, PH and SG.

[iver aldas]

Thanks much for your feedback, and I really do wish I could afford it at my present state, ha ha. I'll probably spring for smthng more affordable like the old Hexar AF once my finances are slightly better, or as you said, maybe I'll hold back the purchase and save up like crazy for the Ikon.

And yes, I have heard of several Leica owners (particularly the M4 and M6) who never got to take their cameras out for shooting just because they don't want to dirty it. Kind of paradoxical, since the whole point of getting a Leica is to shoot life even more, ha ha. Maybe that's the appeal of cheaper RFs like the Bessa since you don't feel so much pain if it ever get's dented, and should be relatively cheaper to repair.

I used to have a Leica M2, less than a week after purchasing it I purchased my second Leica which is the M6(Mint condition w/ box and everything). With less than a month of using the M6 it has shown wears all over it. After a month of not using the M2 I sold it and concentrated with the metered body and 2 or 3 months of using the M6 it has shown brassing and wears almost everywhere. A year after using the M6 I can feel that the shutter is on in the verge of breaking. I don't know maybe of intensive use or the camera is just faulty but I don't care the camera served me well. I sold it and then purchased my 2nd M6 later last year which is my main camera right now. I don't know what will happen to this poor little thing. My goal with this camera is to have the film worn on it's pressure plate. Like what happened to Garry Winogrand's M4. Conclusion, Leica are not built to be kept in dry boxes. They are made to document life and capture the reality around you. So if you are decide for a camera make sure that you choose a camera that will serve you well.

Photo of my previous M6 months after purchasing it mint.

[Rob_Chan]

I used to have a Leica M2, less than a week after purchasing it I purchased my second Leica which is the M6(Mint condition w/ box and everything). With less than a month of using the M6 it has shown wears all over it. After a month of not using the M2 I sold it and concentrated with the metered body and 2 or 3 months of using the M6 it has shown brassing and wears almost everywhere. A year after using the M6 I can feel that the shutter is on in the verge of breaking. I don't know maybe of intensive use or the camera is just faulty but I don't care the camera served me well. I sold it and then purchased my 2nd M6 later last year which is my main camera right now. I don't know what will happen to this poor little thing. My goal with this camera is to have the film worn on it's pressure plate. Like what happened to Garry Winogrand's M4. Conclusion, Leica are not built to be kept in dry boxes. They are made to document life and capture the reality around you. So if you are decide for a camera make sure that you choose a camera that will serve you well.

Photo of my previous M6 months after purchasing it mint.

Yo. Thanks man for sharing your experience, appreciate it much. One thing I couldn't believe about the M6, is that it's not as solid as I was led to believe, judging from your feedback. I was actually considering the M6 as my 1st ILC RF, but I changed my mind because I've always had a preference for the Zeiss name. Trying to scout for a Zeiss Ikon actually, ha ha

But seriously, your M6 had brassing and a shutter issue after only a year of usage? Oh man......no wonder several M6 owners I know personally do not carry these things out. If it breaks, there's no telling how it's going to get fixed.

[iver aldas]

Yo. Thanks man for sharing your experience, appreciate it much. One thing I couldn't believe about the M6, is that it's not as solid as I was led to believe, judging from your feedback. I was actually considering the M6 as my 1st ILC RF, but I changed my mind because I've always had a preference for the Zeiss name. Trying to scout for a Zeiss Ikon actually, ha ha

But seriously, your M6 had brassing and a shutter issue after only a year of usage? Oh man......no wonder several M6 owners I know personally do not carry these things out. If it breaks, there's no telling how it's going to get fixed.

I experienced it once and hopefully I won't experience it the second time. I shot intensively using that camera maybe the time came for it to have a cla but I prefer to purchase a new one than spending $500 to $700 of CLA that's why I sold it. Go with whatever camera you like but I would suggest that you have to shoot it and not keep it inside a box. Cheers man and good luck!

[Dan95]

I experienced it once and hopefully I won't experience it the second time. I shot intensively using that camera maybe the time came for it to have a cla but I prefer to purchase a new one than spending $500 to $700 of CLA that's why I sold it. Go with whatever camera you like but I would suggest that you have to shoot it and not keep it inside a box. Cheers man and good luck!

So you sold a camera on the verge of breaking ?

[iver aldas]

Yup very cheap. So that the buyer will still have an extra bucks for a CLA.

[georgewongtzewen]

If you really want a value M mount body, I always recommend the Leitz Minolta CL or Leica CL. You could probably pick one up in decent condition off eBay around RM1500 to RM2500 and this comes with the sharp Summicron-M 40mm f2. Can't beat that price really and it's the smallest Leica M body you'll ever find. Still isn't the easiest of Leicas to load but it's better than the regular M2/3/4s

[Rob_Chan]

If you really want a value M mount body, I always recommend the Leitz Minolta CL or Leica CL. You could probably pick one up in decent condition off eBay around RM1500 to RM2500 and this comes with the sharp Summicron-M 40mm f2. Can't beat that price really and it's the smallest Leica M body you'll ever find. Still isn't the easiest of Leicas to load but it's better than the regular M2/3/4s

Thanks for the advice man, appreciate it. I did consider the Leica CL combo at one stage, but decided against it because it is a little too old. With more or less the same amount of money, I find I can actually buy a Bessa R3M + 40mm Nokton f/1.4 kit, brand new at that. But at this moment, my thought is to get a 2nd hand Zeiss Biogon 35mm or Planar 50mm with a Bessa R2M. Still trying to look through the options, including 2nd hand Leica M4s and M6s.

[Ralverd]

Imo, the Bessa is a brilliant camera for the money. But a Leica will always win in terms of pure feel and desirability. I've been through a Bessa (for a day), a ZI, a Hexar RF...

1) Bessa R2A - Excellent camera overall. Decent viewfinder but flares a bit. Dislike the manual frame selection. Felt very reliable and solid.
2) Hexar RF - A camera I would own if I didn't have a Leica. Excellent in every manner, but lacked a film advance lever - deal breaker.
3) Zeiss Ikon ZM - Best RF viewfinder out there (though you have to center your eye while viewing through it), but overall it felt flimsy. Great handling but I didn't think much of it. I prefer the Bessa for the money.

Eventually I settled for the Leica because it simply feels better as a camera. Holds their value better too. Lens-wise I think the current Voigtlander offerings are plenty good.

Regards, Ralverd

[Rob_Chan]

Imo, the Bessa is a brilliant camera for the money. But a Leica will always win in terms of pure feel and desirability. I've been through a Bessa (for a day), a ZI, a Hexar RF...

1) Bessa R2A - Excellent camera overall. Decent viewfinder but flares a bit. Dislike the manual frame selection. Felt very reliable and solid.
2) Hexar RF - A camera I would own if I didn't have a Leica. Excellent in every manner, but lacked a film advance lever - deal breaker.
3) Zeiss Ikon ZM - Best RF viewfinder out there (though you have to center your eye while viewing through it), but overall it felt flimsy. Great handling but I didn't think much of it. I prefer the Bessa for the money.

Eventually I settled for the Leica because it simply feels better as a camera. Holds their value better too. Lens-wise I think the current Voigtlander offerings are plenty good.

Regards, Ralverd

Thanks for your feedback bro, appreciate it much, especially when a comparison is drawn between the options. I was quite interested with the Konica at one stage, what with the really affordable prices in eBay. But like you, what turned me off was the motorized film advance. I also don't really like the fact that the OVF is smaller than the rest (haven't seen one in real life, but I heard that it can't compare with most of it's contemporary peers).

I have to face the fact that the Ikon will have to wait for now. A bit surprised that you reported that it had a flimsy feel to it, because it felt superb in my hands. What I do agree, is that the R2 and R3s felt very good for it's asking price. I am gunning for the R3M ever since I had an encounter with it's OVF. It's the biggest I have ever seen, much bigger than even the Ikon and R2 for sure. Only issue now is the lens. You ever had any experience with M-Hexanons?

[weitatt]

There are still some very good an affordable rangefinders in the market. e.g. Yashica Minister-D, Yashica-J, Yashica Electro 35 (These are really cheap), Fujica V2. If you must have interchangeable lens the Canon-P is also an excellent rangefinder. Even the Zorki C is a pretty cheap and decent rangefinder.

[Ralverd]

Thanks for your feedback bro, appreciate it much, especially when a comparison is drawn between the options. I was quite interested with the Konica at one stage, what with the really affordable prices in eBay. But like you, what turned me off was the motorized film advance. I also don't really like the fact that the OVF is smaller than the rest (haven't seen one in real life, but I heard that it can't compare with most of it's contemporary peers).

I have to face the fact that the Ikon will have to wait for now. A bit surprised that you reported that it had a flimsy feel to it, because it felt superb in my hands. What I do agree, is that the R2 and R3s felt very good for it's asking price. I am gunning for the R3M ever since I had an encounter with it's OVF. It's the biggest I have ever seen, much bigger than even the Ikon and R2 for sure. Only issue now is the lens. You ever had any experience with M-Hexanons?

Actually the Hexar RF has one of the biggest VFs I've ever seen in a camera. It's just that the magnification was small (0.54x/058x I think?) which meant it was more suitable for wide angle lenses. Also I owned a Hexanon-M 50mm F/2 before and it was very, very good. Bokeh is lovely and does everything a Summicron would. I've also had a go with the 50mm F/1.2 titanium and the 21-35mm F/3.4 dual focal length lenses, which are both very exotic and collectable stuff - then again that's a different ballpark. I'd go for a Voigtlander or Zeiss now if I had to build a new RF kit. It's rather difficult to find a used Konica M-mount lens unless you're thinking of importing. Leica glassare rather expensive at the moment but you can't really go wrong with a good ol' 50mm Summicron.

Regards, Ralverd

[Rob_Chan]

Actually the Hexar RF has one of the biggest VFs I've ever seen in a camera. It's just that the magnification was small (0.54x/058x I think?) which meant it was more suitable for wide angle lenses. Also I owned a Hexanon-M 50mm F/2 before and it was very, very good. Bokeh is lovely and does everything a Summicron would. I've also had a go with the 50mm F/1.2 titanium and the 21-35mm F/3.4 dual focal length lenses, which are both very exotic and collectable stuff - then again that's a different ballpark. I'd go for a Voigtlander or Zeiss now if I had to build a new RF kit. It's rather difficult to find a used Konica M-mount lens unless you're thinking of importing. Leica glassare rather expensive at the moment but you can't really go wrong with a good ol' 50mm Summicron.

Regards, Ralverd

Pardon my lack of knowledge, but I always thought that low magnification always means small OVF. And you're right: the Hexar's ratio is a paltry 0.6, close enough to 0.58. But it was a good thing you mentioned this, because I intend to purchase a 35mm or 50mm for my 1st RF body. I would definitely appreciate a big OVF. I also read that eyeglass wearers may face difficulty seeing the 35 and 40mm framelines of the R2/R3 respectively, which is not good as I wear glasses full time.

I also have no issues importing lenses, because every single film gear I have are bought through eBay. Touch wood, no issues at time of writing. Tried looking for an affordable Summicron, no luck. But no worries as I've always been a quiet fan of Zeiss stuff, ha ha.