Learning to shoot weddings....

[grant]

I meet a lot of people at weddings who are keen amatuers who may have just bought a DSLR and think a friends wedding is the ideal place to test out their skills. This is prompted because two weeks ago two fools nearly ruined a mutual friends wedding coverage, and when I saw their photos posted on flickr I nearly choked. These guys had, after being told by the couple to stay out of our way, jeopardised our coverage in order to not only shoot but to publish snap shots so bad that if I had shot them I would be selling my camera equipment immediately.

Many years ago...too many...I was in the "starting out" situation, and on that occasion I learned the first of many valuable lessons. I will share it so that if you are a budding wedding photographer you can learn too. On this occassion I brought my camera and lenses but within 2 minutes of the walk in I sat down. I observed that the couple had hired a photographer, and that unruly friends and family with their shiny new toys were making it very hard for the wedding to be covered in a way that would be honoring to the couple.

So what to do?

First, if you want to shoot weddings, know why you want to do it.

• If its because you have a nice new camera best not. Just because I can buy a soccer ball doesn't mean I plan on playing Premiere league anytime soon.
• If it is to make a lot of money, look elsewhere. It is not as lucrative as many think. Most of my clients make a LOT more than I do doing normal jobs.
• If it is for fame...leave it. Fame is something others give you. Seeking for it will not bring it. That is a road to depression. To get fame you have to be consistently very good at something.
• It looks easy. It isn't. We make it look easy becuase we have a lot of experience. Weddings when you first start out are stressful. Also the amount of post production work is phenomenal. Shooting is the easy part!
• If it is because you want to give the couple quality work that will make them happy of you are on the right path. Be bride and groom centric. I have met and spoken with talented photographers who potentially could have been shooting regularly with my team who I dropped the moment I perceived their attitude was not centred on the couple.

When you are a guest and at a wedding

• At the formal ceremony observe the professionals there. I leave my camera at home when I am a wedding guest so that I can see and learn from the pros that have been hired. There are both good and bad lessons to be learned from everyone. None of us is perfect.
• Never get in the pros way. They were paid to cover the wedding. You are jeopardising their job and your friends wedding coverage. I often leave "problem people" in photos during the review by the couple. It helps to explain why the kiss shot was missed from a certain angle because some twit thought he was "the man"
• If you respect the pros they will likely respect you. We are generally amiable people. You can likely chat with them during the night and pick their brains. I know we are very open to talking gear and technique during the night with guests, but if you happened to be a pest during a church ceremony or registration you may find us a little chilly.
• Be very aware of the locations rules. If you don't know them you could jeopardise the pros abilty to shoot. At one wedding I was asked to stop shooting (when I wasn't shooting!) because one of their friends went for a walk over the altar area and the church assumed he was with me. We were not given permission to start shooting again after that! But we did ...shhhh........
• Where you can "help" is to shoot things you know the pros will not. Friends at your table, maybe nephews and nieces will smile for you and not us.

This doesn't really go into the starting off details, but I have to get back to work.

I hope this helps set this thread off....I know there are tons of opinions :-P

[aziel-chan]

Originally Posted by grant They were paid to cover the wedding. You are jeopardising their job and your friends wedding coverage. I often leave "problem people" in photos during the review by the couple. It helps to explain why the kiss shot was missed from a certain angle because some twit thought he was "the man"

I like the idea of leave "problem people" in photos during the review by the couple.

And yes, I often experience this situation. Sometimes, these 'problem people' are not even those with slrs, but those who are too excited with the 'face detection' feature in their compact cam, n take too much time to make sure all faces detected before they can press the shutter button.

Well yes, we do understand that everybody loves photos (especially in this digital era), but some of them, even though they are among the family members of the couples, are not aware that they are actually ruining the couples wedding ceremony pictures. We do allow some space n time for these people to get some shots of the couples too, but then again, these 'problem people' just dont get it.

And so, this is when I will use my sweet words and smile to tell them in a way, "I'm really sorry that I have to interrupt you but I'm hired for this."

Anyway, thanx Grant, for sharing....

[xmenla]

I only shoot wedding for FREE.......

[engku]

wow, grant corban in the house.

Good thread for all. A must read!

I myself will ask my assistant if i have that day to assist me to communicate with 'those' people not to block my angle or if i can, i just pat their shoulder and smile with move away sign.

[Steven Leong]

Originally Posted by grant I meet a lot of people at weddings who are keen amatuers who may have just bought a DSLR and think a friends wedding is the ideal place to test out their skills. This is prompted because two weeks ago two fools nearly ruined a mutual friends wedding coverage, and when I saw their photos posted on flickr I nearly choked. These guys had, after being told by the couple to stay out of our way, jeopardised our coverage in order to not only shoot but to publish snap shots so bad that if I had shot them I would be selling my camera equipment immediately.

Alternatively, they might start telling people that they shoot the same wedding as you and got better shots. Or worse... they will start telling people that they are now "professional" wedding photographers and asking to be paid for shooting weddings.

I haven't had that problem (guests blocking) for a long, long time... maybe I look nasty or is plain nasty; one glare from me or a pat on the shoulder and they just back off.

[jetfynn]

[quote=Steven Leong;639596]Alternatively, they might start telling people that they shoot the same wedding as you and got better shots. Or worse... they will start telling people that they are now "professional" wedding photographers and asking to be paid for shooting weddings.
/QUOTE]

Not only they tell people they are now "professional" with just 1 or 2 wedding projects, they even printed namecards to say the same.


Originally Posted by grant

I meet a lot of people at weddings who are keen amateurs who may have just bought a DSLR and think a friends wedding is the ideal place to test out their skills. This is prompted because two weeks ago two fools nearly ruined a mutual friends wedding coverage, and when I saw their photos posted on flickr I nearly choked. These guys had, after being told by the couple to stay out of our way, jeopardised our coverage in order to not only shoot but to publish snap shots so bad that if I had shot them I would be selling my camera equipment immediately.

Had this problem once during a wedding dinner and the "photographer" friend even got the knack to tell me off saying we should be "competing" for the best shots just like what reporters do. (If I'm not mistaken, also noticed he was using f11, speed 1/160 & direct flash, so no point arguing with him)

I was tolerable at first but then he got into my nerves so much so that I was mad at the "photographer" and asked the couple that I be excused from shooting any further with "him" around jeopardising with practically everything that I'm paid to do.

Nevertheless, damage was done as the moments (ie: march in, grand entrance) was gone and over. Luckily with the experience in situations like these the pictures still turn out ok. Not great but at least they are deliverable quality.

[Steven Leong]

Originally Posted by jetfynn Not only they tell people they are now "professional" with just 1 or 2 wedding projects, they even printed namecards to say the same.

Hehe... the market is seriously crowded lately with all these "newcomers"... jetfynn... wanna start a new business venture to push for pet portraits? It seems to be a very popular thing over at DPReview.com

[paklan]

Luckily I only shoot flowers, windows and doors...

[Mavik]

Wow, great write up. Definitely good tips and things to watch out for during a wedding.

[grant]

[quote=jetfynn;639950]

Originally Posted by Steven Leong Had this problem once during a wedding dinner and the "photographer" friend even got the knack to tell me off saying we should be "competing" for the best shots just like what reporters do. (If I'm not mistaken, also noticed he was using f11, speed 1/160 & direct flash, so no point arguing with him)

Competing? Why? He wants to enter a competition? I read in one forum how a bride was annoyed her photographer seemed more concerned with getting a competiton winning photo than doing his job. It is a good way to lose referrals and in both cases breaks the rules of who the wedding is all about. As for competitions, the only competition any photographer should be in is with himself. You are only as good as your last shoot.

My philosophy is based on the fact that the bride has looked forward to this day her whole life. With this mind set I believe every other decision you make will fall into place easily.

• It will determine how you dress,
• What equipment you will use.
• Whether you shoot RAW.
• When you as a guest will bring out your camera, and when you will leave it in your bag.

If you see the hired photographer(s) doing their job, stay out of the way and shoot complimentary shots you see they can't shoot. They HAVE to get the bread and butter shots. You can get the photos they can't get.

Examples:

• The photographer is shooting the kiss, you shoot the parents and friends reactions.
• The photographer is shooting group shots, you shoot the detail or friends chatting and goofing off while they wait.

The couple will be very thankful you did.

Maybe this analogy will help. How would you feel if a photographer came into your office and sat down next to you. He told you he fancies himself in sales or IT, then everytime you tried to do your job they got in your way and generally made a nuisance of themselves so that you were not able to perform optimally? Food for thought.

Remember what is best for the couple.

BTW: I am focusing on formal services eg Buddhist, Christian and Muslim ceremonies where some decorum is needed. Generally the rest of the day is an absolute free for all (except our private time shooting portraits). In churches shooting from the pews is often done and no issue. But when a scrum of paparazzi forms around the altar so that the other guests, notably parents and grand parents can't see, some of who have travelled from out station...grrrr.

[ted]

You are only as good as your last shoot.

Words to live by. Thanks Grant for sharing your thots

[mhogolf]

absolutely valid points! can this be made a sticky ?

[Steven Leong]

Originally Posted by grant Competing? Why? He wants to enter a competition? I read in one forum how a bride was annoyed her photographer seemed more concerned with getting a competiton winning photo than doing his job. It is a good way to lose referrals and in both cases breaks the rules of who the wedding is all about. As for competitions, the only competition any photographer should be in is with himself.

Grant, I believe jetfynn was referring to "competing" for photos like what press photographers need to do at events to get shots of the VIPs; not shooting photos for competitions.

Speaking of guests carrying DSLRs, I regularly teach them how to use their cameras and at times let them shoot from my spot once I have done shooting the photos I need. If they can get better photos than I can then it is time for me to retire from shooting weddings.

[LoctorMayat]

while there are many wannabes around...

what about some good ol' advice for those who really wanna mencerubi dalam bidang ini ?

[webster]

what about shooting the bridesmaid?

[andythology]

mencerubi the bridesmaid?

[engku]

Originally Posted by LoctorMayat while there are many wannabes around... what about some good ol' advice for those who really wanna mencerubi dalam bidang ini ?

Give urself a learning period or attached to established company and gain experience as much as possible. Then u can start develop ur own style and circle of clients.

Look at the general market and dun try to kill the market with ridiculous offer or package.

Learn how to calculate ur cost. Not simply i charge RM500 per wedding i can make rm300 nett. Costing must include petrol caj, gears depreciation, photog fees, traveling time, editing time, designer cost etc.

my dua sen.

[LoctorMayat]

Originally Posted by andythology mencerubi the bridesmaid?

I know someone who do that.....

[webster]

actually i learnt a very valuable thing from grant. don't compete for the same shot with the OP, shoot alternate subjects. and i think grant has put is very positively by suggesting alternatives instead of the normal run of the mill "newbiews are spoiling the market " posts or "i just stare at them to make them look away" post.

so the key take home message for me is, when the op is shooting het couple kissing, maybe next time i will try to catch the tinge of green envy on the bridesmaid's eye as she wonder when will her turn be

[LoctorMayat]

Originally Posted by engku Give urself a learning period or attached to established company and gain experience as much as possible. Then u can start develop ur own style and circle of clients. Look at the general market and dun try to kill the market with ridiculous offer or package. Learn how to calculate ur cost. Not simply i charge RM500 per wedding i can make rm300 nett. Costing must include petrol caj, gears depreciation, photog fees, traveling time, editing time, designer cost etc. my dua sen.

Thanks a lot to engku for a very big sized dua sen. Very helpful tips indeed.